The Senate authorized Bush to go to war in Iraq, with a majority of both DEMS and REPS voting in favor. So, please stop blaming only Bush. Both parties were complicit in that disaster. Even Sen Kerry, who later became the DEM presidential candidate voted to go to war in Iraq.

You mean the same war that Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Tom Daschle and the rest of the dems as well as 30 countries authorised? They all saw the same evidence..People neglect to remember that Saddam ws killing 100,000 of his own citizens/ year..It was not all about WMD's which by the way, were in fact there...

Wjrterrier5
The Senate only voted to give Bush authorization to pursue whatever responses he deemed necessary. There was NEVER a clear declaration of war from either branch of the Legislature.

And where we're the WMD? (Real ones I mean, not the cobble rocks, ball-peen hammers and fungo bats of mass destruction.)

Obama was born in Hawaii, get over it.

Although your post speaks volumes as to why Romney will not denounce Trump and although he knows your full of it, he wants your vote and will allow you to whisper your sweet nothings in his ear to get it.

HUH?

Zero logic and so completely disrespectful to the State of Hawaii, the hospital where he was born, the newpapers who reported it, the doctor who delivered him, my personal friend who was in the maternity ward with Mrs. Obama, not to mention all of their friends, relatives and colleagues who were THERE, who helped raise the President. To say nothing of his amazing grandparents, his mother and sister. How dare you? It speaks to what lies deep within, which is this basic desire and need to make the President "other" when, in fact, his story is a truly American story with roots on his mother's side that go back generations. You just cannot stand that he is President. Well, he is and most likely will be for four more years.

Willard Mitt Romney's father WAS BORN in Mexico - but the gop ran him for president WITHOUT checking HIS papers. John McCain WAS BORN in the Panama Canal Zone...IF it was on US Military property then TECHNICALLY he was born in America...but IF it was across the street, then he WAS NOT born here. Did ANYONE in the gop ask to check their papers? No, just for this black man!!! For God's sake they FAILED to even ask Palin if she has read or knows what our CONstitution says! No David...."WE the People" are satisfied that the contemporaneous announcement of his birth is TRUE&FACTUAL....as is his Birth Certificate witnessed and SWORN to by the Republican in Hawaii. As is the Certificate of Live Birth (just like Romney released) also TRUE & VERIFIABLE. So all you and others are talking here is smoke & mirrors, trying to gin up the fear game again. Do you have ANYTHING of substance for America or just this shi(f)t? PS. There is NO tea party, only angry reTHUGliCLOWN$ trying on funny hats!

Mama D,

But we have not been able to access Obama's natal hospital records. Obama has failed to give the hospital permission. It would be true, if we could have access to his hospital records; we could clear this up in 15 minutes in a judge's chambers.

As I stated earlier, the newspaper birth announcement were simple reflections of Hawaii's Health Department records.

We don't know who delivered Obama. The doctor listed on his long form certificate
was only the certifying doctor, not necessarily his delivery doctor. In any case, he is dead so he can't tells use on way or another if he actually saw Obama.

I am not sure who your "personal friend" is who was in the maternity ward with Mrs. Obama. And at present, I am not aware of any friends, relatives and colleagues who were THERE at his birth, other than the mother of the Nordyke twins, whose account remains unsubstantiated.

ex animo
davidfarrar

Peter Desmond

Barack Obama wasn't the first, nor the only, presidential candidate back in 2008 that was sued in federal court over his "natural born Citizen" qualifications. John McCain was by a "white" lawyer named Leo Donofrio, Esq.

ex animo
davidfarrar

"By natural law, an Article ll 'natural born' Citizen is a citizen at birth under the cloak of allegiance of its father." By "natural law," you say? Did you make that up all by yourself, or did someone else make it up? Natural law, indeed. I see the phrase, "natural born citizen" in Article II. How to define that is, I suppose, subject to interpretation. But natural law? Who determines what that means?

Wrong, David. The courts have determined that any person born on American soil is an American citizen. Why do conservatives cry and cover themselves with sackcloth and ashes over anchor babies?

Colleen Harper

Because it's not within the jurisdiction of the judiciary branch of government, nor any plenary authority of government, to define a Constitutional term already perfectly defined by our Founding Fathers and natural law.

ex animo
davidfarrar

What if Mitt Romney would not stand up to Obama on the Birther issue (as he is trying to do this awkward dance with trump: "I love your money but don't like the birther company you keep"), what will the Tea Party do? They are still going to support and vote for Romney. Tea Party is not about principle or the Constitution, it's all about Obama who they just don't like, that's all.

David,
The 14th Amendment states:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

It does NOT say "born AND naturalized." It says "born." It makes NO mention that the parents must meet qualifications for the child "born" in the United States. It covers only the condition of the child, that the child be "born" in the United States to qualify as a citizen.

This is why conservatives hate Hispanic "anchor babies," because they are by law citizens of the United States when they are "born" here.

Why do you hate the Constitution?

Now why on earth would there be a publicity pamphlet for a book that won't be published for another four years? More to the point, why has no one but you ever heard of such a thing as a "pamphlet" for a book?
Now you have to choose. Are you a feckless liar for making crap up and spitting it out just to see what it sounds like? Or you simply so foolishly gullible as to believe the crap that someone else made up and spit out?
WHICH IS IT? Are you a liar or are you stupid?

Below find the direct quote from the assistant at this agency who made the error. It was a pamphlet promotion POSSIBLE new books coming in the future. Mr. Obama eventually left this agency and abandoned this project to write Dreams of my Father for another publisher. He had no knowledge of this error. Sorry jrterrier5, just another non-story.
Miriam Goderich of the publishing firm Action & Drystel has told Taegan Goddard’s Political Wire that the printing was a “fact checking error.”

“This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time,” Goderich said. “There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii.

Don't hold your breath..They are responsible for this empty suit getting elected.. They want to keep him there...

here, perhaps you'll believe this:

"Obama's former literary agency misidentified his birthplace as Kenya while trying to promote the then-Harvard Law grad as an author in 1991.

According to a promotional booklet produced by the agency, Acton & Dystel, to showcase its roster of writers, Obama was "born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii."
. . .
"Barack Obama, the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review, was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii. The son of an American anthropologist and a Kenyan finance minister, he attended Columbia University and worked as a financial journalist and editor for Business International Corporation. He served as project coordinator in Harlem for the New York Public Interest Research Group, and was Executive Director of the Developing Communities Project in Chicago's South Side. His commitment to social and racial issues will be evident in his first book, Journeys in Black and White."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/born-kenya-obamas-literary-agent-misidentified-birthplace-1991/story?id=16372566

sorry that i have to keep on replying to myself but there is no reply button for those who respond to my original post.

according to ABC, the agency that originally ran the "born in Kenya raised in Indonesia" bio facts continues to represent President Obama. I do not know whether the story is true, my point is that this is should be explored by the media and explained by the President.

from the abc story:

"According to a promotional booklet produced by the agency, Acton & Dystel, to showcase its roster of writers, Obama was "born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii."

"Miriam Goderich edited the text of the bio; she is now a partner at the Dystel & Goderich agency, which lists Obama as one of its current clients.

"This was nothing more than a fact checking error by me--an agency assistant at the time," Goderich wrote in an emailed statement to Yahoo News. "There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii. I hope you can communicate to your readers that this was a simple mistake and nothing more."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/born-kenya-obamas-literary-agent-misidentified-birthplace-1991/story?id=16372566

Barack Obama was born in Kenya and attended Harvard University. His son, also named Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii and attended Harvard University. Surely, you can see how an error could be made. Barack Obama, the son, has a birth certificate which has been verified by Hawaiian officials, including a Republican governor. The birth certificate proves the pamphlet's error.

A publicity pamphlet is a legal document, but a birth certificate (long form) is not! OK!

A time machine isn't necessary. The fact are these: Hawaii did, and still does, issue birth certificates to persons born off-island to as much as a year after the birth. All one needs to do is fill out an application. If this was done with Obama, which many Birthers, including this one, thinks if this is true; we should be told by Hawaiian Health Department officials.

Secondly, the contemporaneous newspapers birth announcements were public service notices, taken directly from the Hawaiian Health Department Index files. These two notices were not from a private, third party. Those birth notices were placed in a different section other than the "public service" section.

But I don't expect to see either Obama, nor Romney discussing this issue at any great lengths because Mitt Romney has a similar problem...his father was born in Mexico to expatriated US citizen parents who gave up their US citizen to be allowed by Mexican authorities to colonize in Mexico.

Since the Obama campaign knows full well the story of Mitt's Mexican connection and his questionable 'natural born' Citizen qualification, this was just a "hit & run" piece by Obama, nothing more.

ex animo
davidfarrar

As George Will says, "Bloviating Idiot". Actually, George Will said "bloviating ignoramus." Otherwise, your post is spot on.

Listen: Obama is actually a Suliban. You know, one of those time-travelling terrorists from the Star Trek: Enterprise series. They serve as foot soldiers in the Temporal Cold War and take orders from the mysterious Future Guy. Therefore, Obama is not limited by ordinary constraints of space and time. In 2007, more or less, he can cause public service notices to be placed in Honolulu newspapers of 1961!

Steve,
Your question about the first Presidents, who were all born English subjects, is an interesting one, but one the Founding Fathers fully anticipated when they included the "grandfather" clause into Article ll: "...or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President."

ex animo
davidfarrar

into Article llLL? Just wondering.

How about someone born in a military hospital in Germany? They would not be eligible, correct? But if I have it right, someone born to a German couple in an airport in Newark would be a US citizen? This could get pretty confusing.
Luckily in Obamas case it's not - he was born in the US, in Hawaii.

Mama D,

If you are in a position to offer any independent, corroborative evidence that Barack Obama was born when and where he states; please do so. Do you have any of Barack Obama's natal hospital records? How about Ann Dunham's hospital registration record? Any OBGYN records of appointments? Any copies of Obama's natal hospital invoices sent out to pay for the delivery? How about any hospital invoices of payment received, and who paid them?

Do you have any independent, corroborative evidence, other than running your gums, to prove Barack Obama was born when and where he states? If so; please offer it up now and help us get to the truth of this matter once and for all.

ex animo
davidfarrar

exactly. There ISN'T any! Lord, these people are nuts. Mr. Farrar, your theory of making a request a year later does not explain the newspapers being printed the week of his birth. Duh. Not only is it ridiculous and insulting, but as a citizen of Hawaii, you people do not understand how hurtful these attacks are to the people of Hawaii. People who knew him. People who were there when he was born including the current Governor of the state! And again, yes, verified by the former Republican Governor of the state. Yes, I have personal friends who not only knew him but one who gave birth in the same maternity ward as Mrs. Obama. In those days, a couple like Mr. & Mrs. Obama, one African and one white woman from Kansas, was NOT common in Hawaii. They stood out and are therefore remembered by all who knew them or even met them. My friend's son, then grew up playing basketball with Barack Obama, as did dozens of other young men at that time. Just stop with this nonsense. Give it up because you are wrong wrong wrong. Just plain wrong.

"The burden of establishing a delegation of power to the United States * * * is upon those making the claim.” Bute v. Illinois, 333 U.S. 640, 653 (1948).

And if each of the General Government’s powers must be proven (not simply presumed) to exist, then every requirement that the Constitution sets for any individual’s exercise of those powers must also be proven (not simply presumed) to be fully satisfied before that individual may exercise any of those powers."

What this means is, it is Barack Obama's responsibility to "prove" his eligibility, not the electorate's.

ex animo
davidfarrar

the bio from the promotional materials by a company that still represents the president (if we can believe ABC). they now claim that it was a typographical error.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/born-kenya-obamas-literary-agent-misidentified-birthplace-1991/story?id=16372566

He did prove he was born in Hawaii, he has the document to prove it. It's an official document. It's what the state gives you. If what you are saying is that an official state document isn't enough proof, then nobody anywhere can prove they were born where they said they were. Ergo, nobody is eligible to become President. I don't care how much Latin you come up with, your "argument" is ridiculous.

Thank you.

I am truly sorry you don't have any substantive evidence to present other than hearsay.

Let's be clear: I am only asking for witnesses in Obama's birth, not his older years. Our task now is to try and follow the "evidence" the Hawaiian registrar used to "verify" their records. Until this is made public, it's still not a "proven" issue.

I do remember an article in the papers of the wife of Dr. Sinclair's, stating that she never once hear her husband mention anything at all about the fact that he 'delivered' Barack Obama (a black child). I am not aware of any other testimony regarding the daughter of Dr. Sinclair's.

Perhaps if you could obtain any of the now deceased doctor's records to see if any reference of Ann Dunnham ,a.k.a Ann Obama can be found in them might help. The fact that none of these records have surfaced this far tells me that, sadly, none exist.

ex animo
davidfarrar

MamaD I am afraid for your health. Calm down. Listen the people who believe that Pres. Obama was born in Kenya are never going to believe anything other than that. It is useless to argue with them and get yourself all upset. You yourself said Jon Stewart said the "Birthers" would not believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii if they had a BIRTHER CAM IN THE DELIVERY ROOM AND DON HO HUNG A LEI AROUND THE BABY'S HEAD. They are ridiculous, bigoted, hate driven, ignorant fools.

The real political issue at hand is who is going to define the ruling class; the government or the Constitution?

Again, Article ll is all about who sets the qualifications of the President and Vice-President ( the ruling class): the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and natural law, as our Founding fathers ordained on one side; or the plenary hand of government on the other: be it the courts, Congress, or any other plenary appointed authority?

One thing is known for certain: if we allow Congress to create the ruling class, they will do so to their own advantage and we will soon lose yet another one of our cherished, self-evident, unalienable truths: that all men are created equal.

ex animo
davidfarrar

You are absolutely right Glamourgal. Every Political Party has its nuts and the Birthers are the Republican Party nuts. Leave them to the Squirrels.

I agree completely!

You are so right SALS. You hit the nail on the head.

I see you have run out of any substantive responses and are so frightened by the truth, you are quite literally speechless.

ex animo
davidfarrar

again, did you read what she said and what this pamphlet actually was? She never said "typo", she said a "fact checking error." In other words, she never checked her facts. This was to promote a POSSIBLE book from a new author....she probably got some sketchy info....oh look he's got a Kenyan father and a mother from Kansas...great hook...born in Kenya. She never fact checked it and says she had no communication with Mr. Obama. AND this was this pamphlet that never went anywhere BECAUSE Mr. Obama did not in fact write that book, but LEFT this agency and went to another agency to eventually write Dreams of my Father. Are you listening at all? No one said typo. No one said this accompanied the President at anytime, anywhere. He left this agency. They basically never represented him as a published author. They asked him to write a book at one point that he never wrote and then he left them. He basically had no association with them and I am certain never saw this so called pamphlet.

How convenient..you just won't try.

ex animo
davidfarrar

I also won't try levitation, teleportation, or telepathy.

right? Thank you Mauigirl! Represent!

Another gum flapper. Where's the beef?

We need to see just what documentary evidence the Hawaiian registrar used to "verify" Barack Obama as an Article ll 'natural born Citizen. Can you do that for me; Ms. I-work-for-the-State-of-Hawai'i- Dept.-of-Health?

ex animo
davidfarrar

The State of Hawai'i doesn't have to show you anything. They already have. Besides, delusional (and I'm guessing, racist) people like you, no matter what proof is shown, will always believe Hawai'i (the State, the hospital, Punahou, etc.) was a player in the best cover-up ever, as truly delusional as that sounds. It still won't change the fact that Barack Hussein Obama was born on Oahu. Auwe!

Howzit!
Hawaii's official documents are apparently meaningless. According to David Farrar, if all you have is a birth certificate (silly official papers!), you can't prove anything. Fortunately, he isn't the one making the decisions. He thinks he is, but he's not.
New Hampshire is full of these wingnuts, but they are just loud and obnoxious (at least the ones without guns). They are comical and entertaining, and will help get President Obama re-elected. We should encourage them. Even if it means a spike in the price of tinfoil due to the demand for hats.
Used to live in Hawaii Kai in the 60's and 70's, miss it a lot sometimes. Actually I lived pretty close to where Obama was born. I don't remember any 'here lives the future president of the United States' signs out front though, so maybe it is all a fake. ;)

Right...you keep thinking that.

ex animo
davidfarrar

yes we do!

regarding whether one person's denial (i'm talking about the "born in kenya" blurb not the birth certificate) should ever be enough, we have a recent example. for weeks elizabeth warren has been stating that she was not responsible for telling Harvard that she was cherokee. today, she comes out and says, never mind, it was me who told harvard that i was cherokee.

in some ways, it's not a big deal. just a collateral matter. in other ways, it goes to the heart of the problems with politicians and the bull they spread everywhere. people need to be more honest.

two wrongs don't make a right. but what are you talking about that she wasn't pregnant with trig. who the heck is trig's mother then?

No...he did not provide "proof". He provided verification. Providing proof implies the documentary evidence the Hawaiian registrar used to "verify" the facts in Barack Obama's case are revealed and examined.

ex animo
davidfarrar

ex animo
davidfarrar